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Peter's avatar

Okay as much as I truly love the Peter Jackson movies, reading this chapter has created the most unintentionally comedic scene in it for me: in Fellowship, there's an evening when Frodo finds Aragorn quietly humming a little tune. Frodo asks who he is singing about, and Aragorn answers "Luthien... an elf maiden, who fell in love with a mortal." When Frodo asks what happened, Aragorn wistfully says, "....she died...." Bwa ha ha ha! Like could you possibly have simplified the story any more? Or missed the important parts? I mean, I get it - his answer serves the movie to emphasize his concern for Arwen, etc, and he could hardly have told Frodo even a tenth of the story in that one scene, but in this context it is quite funny to me. Like starting a story: once upon a time there was a Danish kid named Hamlet. He was born, grew older, did some things, then died by poison. Don't die by poison, kids!

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Jason T's avatar

I love this, and even though I’m pretty familiar with the story, there’s so much new to learn each time. You’re right that there aren’t enough women in the legendarium, but the ones that he did create are absolutely awesome!

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Breanne Rodgers's avatar

While there's certainly grounds for critique to Tolkien's work, he did seem to respect women enough to give them autonomy and power. I love seeing it.

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Jennie Spotila's avatar

I love this chapter so much. My next dog may have to be named Huan because he is the bestest boi.

There are two quotes in this chapter that especially stand out to me. The first is after the eagles rescue Beren and Luthien after Carcharoth bites off his hand, and Luthien heals him: "he was drawn back to life by the love of Luthien." This makes me think of Tolkien and the other survivors of the Great War. Did Edith draw him back to life by her love? I like to think so. If anyone can recommend a great biography of Tolkien, I would love that.

The second quote is earlier in the chapter. "Thus he began the payment of anguish for the fate that was laid on him; and in his fate Luthien was caught, and being immortal she shared in his mortality, and being free received her chain; and her anguish was greater than any other of the Eldalie has known." That's a banger. Luthien was free and received her chain--is the chain mortality? Or is it her love for Beren? And her anguish being greater than any other of the Eldalie has known is SO MUCH. More than the survivors of the Kinslaying? More than the suffering of the sons of Feanor (for I think the oath makes them suffer)? We rightly focus on the beauty of Beren and Luthien's relationship, but that there is also great suffering is (dare I say it) quite human.

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Breanne Rodgers's avatar

I know a lot of people recommend the biography of Tolkien by Humphrey Carpenter!

And yes, I take the "chain" to be her accepting mortality and the bittersweetness of getting to be with Beren because of that choice.

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Keri Underwood's avatar

I loved this chapter and I will be thinking about it for a long time. I love how Lúthien doesn't need saving and the help she receives from Huan. I think Huan is a new favorite character for me! I think that Beren is very honorable as he does what he must in order to marry Lúthien without question even at his own peril. I also enjoyed getting to see more of Sauron's power in this chapter.

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Breanne Rodgers's avatar

So glad you enjoyed this chapter! Yes, Huan is a favorite for obvious reasons. And yes, we really get a better picture of how cruel Sauron actually is.

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Brandon MacGillis's avatar

Today I played LoTR Risk with my friend and watched Fellowship. Aragorn is leading the Hobbits to Rivendell and, during the night Frodo is woken by Aragorn’s song and asks him “who is this woman you sing of?” And Aragorn answers “Lúthien, who gave her love to Beren, a mortal.” Mind. Blown. Again!

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Dustin Hopkins's avatar

So many people have written so many wonderful things about this story I don’t have much to add on the story.

Except that the line formed from the union of Beren & Luthien shines through the three ages like a bulwark against darkness whose deeds shine bright through these stories.

Here are some descendant (though elf family trees can more resemble flow charts): Elwing - wife of Earendil, Elrond , Elros and line of Kings of Numenor, Elendil The Tall, Isildur, Aragorn, and Arwen.

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Jen.M's avatar

I noticed a section in the Beren and Luthien chapter (pg 157 in my copy) where the description of the ring of Barahir was pulled into the film The Two Towers.

In the film Grima Wormtongue reported to Saruman describing Aragorn the ranger and that he wore a ring with "Two serpents with emerald eyes; one devouring the other, crowned with golden flowers."

In the book - “For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads were met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured “

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Kris Hultner's avatar

This week I read "Of Túrin Turambar," "Of the Ruin of Doriath," "Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin," and "Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath," completing the Quenta Silmarillion. As has been my practice all along, I'll limit my discussion to what Breanne covered. To those reading this who are not paid subscribers and therefore haven't been able to follow my progress, I was initially unsure before the start of the group read if this was going to cover only the main story (the Quenta Silmarillion) or the whole book, so I decided to read the two short stories at the start of the book, completing that before learning that the entire book was being covered. Because of the experience that I had in my failed attempt to read the Silmarillion twenty years ago, I just kept reading two ahead, expecting to be unable to hold the pace as I reached the point where I faltered.

Well, the group is at the point where I faltered, and this time, I blew past it.

I have read the standalone Beren and Luthien book a few years ago, about the time that the first season of The Rings of Power was being released. That was the first time that I completed reading the story.

The only thing that I noted in this chapter is wondering if the herb that Huan brought to heal Beren was athelas, aka kingsfoil.

Since I'm unexpectedly far ahead, I'll read the final two short stories this week, and in later weeks, read the after materials.

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BlueRidgeEdits's avatar

I read through “Of the Fifth Battle,” but really did not absorb it thoroughly after being focused most of the week on Beren and Luthien. From my partial audio read a few years ago, this tale is perhaps what I recall best as being particularly powerful, without having the full context of reading through Lord of the Rings. Now that I have recently read LOTR, I’m taken with the reflection that Arwen and Aragorn are to their long-ago kin of Luthien and Beren. Going into this read, I knew Arwen was directly related to Luthien, but I didn’t realize until some further reading that Aragorn is distantly related to Beren, in my understanding without closely studying family trees.

I keep thinking about how it has been said Tolkien wanted The Silmarillion to be published as a companion to LOTR. I can’t imagine publishing all that in one fell swoop! But reading them close together has been very helpful for me (and why this read-through has had wonderful timing). I would like to understand more about what state of formation the Silmarillion was in when LOTR published, specifically whether Beren and Luthien were fully formed as a tale much like we read it now, or if he continued to develop their story. This tale is somewhat more three-dimensional than the Appendix A account of Aragorn and Arwen, but seeing the threads woven between provides a glimpse of how personally vested Tolkien was in this multigenerational love story theme. (Though I was not surprised the book turned immediately after this to more doom and destruction in battle.)

I do hope to follow up with a read of the separate edited volume about Beren and Luthien, just to compare.

It’s curious how their story continues for one paragraph of the next chapter. Yet there is much mystery, both in that narrative and the ending of the chapter itself. Luthien’s impact registers as far-reaching: “Yet in her choice the Two Kindreds have been joined; and she is the forerunner of many in whom the Eldar see yet, though all the world is changed, the likeness of Luthien the beloved, whom they have lost.”

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Marilyn Mix's avatar

I did read through Chapter 21 because I was using the 4 chapter/week goal. But Chapter 19 was so long and Chapter 21 Of Turin Turambar was so sad, I couldn't get to Ch 22. Breanne, could you let us know what you expect to cover each week so I don't feel like I'm falling behind.

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Lea Goode-Harris's avatar

Chapter 21 was so incredibly sad I also had to stop reading.

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Flora Alisha's avatar

Of Turin was a gut punch. Can’t wait to talk about it next week. I need to process.

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Marilyn Mix's avatar

Chapter 19 - Of Beren and Lúthien

The tale of Beren and Lúthien is the ultimate fairy story. It has magic, enchantment, true love, taking animals, vampires, werewolves, a quest, and returning from death. Luthien is a unique female protagonist. She is a princess, and is independent and powerful, having Eldar and Maia parentage. Beren has proven his worth before meeting Luthien and she probably heard of his exploits. I have read the book Beren and Lúthien, which contains the poem and the prose versions of the story as well as some variations; one of which has an evil cat instead of Sauron.

It is interesting that Beren gave Lúthien the name of Tinúviel, nightingale, since that bird is associated with her mother Melian when she sang in Valinor. The theme of the man falling in love with a random woman he finds dancing and singing in the woods is repeated in the Lord of the Rings, and has a parallel in Tolkien’s real life. Lúthien loved him and “laid her hand in his” I think this is the Elvish equivalent of a betrothal, if not actual marriage. The formal wedding is later, but between them, they are bonded and she becomes mortal. I suppose she didn’t take Beren home to meet her parents because she knew how her Dad would react. Then Daeron ratted her out, what did he expect to gain? Did he really love her even?

Thingol wants Beren to prove he is worthy of his daughter, but actually just wants him to go away. “Bring me in your hand a Silmaril from Morgoth’s crown” Beren answers “When we meet again my hand shall hold a Silmaril.” Beren sets out, enlisting Fingon’s help. Only Fingon and a small group join him. They end up captured and put in a dungeon in Sauron’s stronghold. Ironically, the city Fingon had built on Tol Sirion. Lúthien senses something has gone wrong and decides to go rescue Beren. Thingol makes a prison tree house and puts her in it. Terrible, Father. But Lúthien used an enchantment to make her hair grow (Rapunzel reference?) so she could make a rope and an invisibility cloak that could also put creatures to sleep. She uses these to escape.

We meet the best dog ever. Huan the wolfhound, bred in Valinor. He was given to Celegorm, Feanor’s son, by Oromë. He was hunting in the area with Celegorm and Curufin. He caught Lúthien and brought her to the brothers. I guess the sleep spell didn’t work on Huan because they say he never slept. They took her cloak and imprisoned her in Nargothrond. Celegorm planned to marry her to consolidate his power. Huan spent time with Lúthien and grew to love her and didn’t like Celegorm’s plan to let Fingon die. He got her cloak and helped her escape, allowing her to ride him like a steed. They rushed to Sauron’s stronghold. Meanwhile, Fingon and Beren are the only ones left in the dungeon as the werewolves have been picking them off one by one. Fingon is mortally wounded while killing a werewolf with his teeth and bare hands. He redeems his oath to Barahir. Beren mourns. Just then, Lúthien and Huan arrives. We have another instance of singing to locate a lost prisoner. Huan kill Druaglin, Lord of were wolves. Sauron himself, taking the form of a wolf, battles Huan. This is an epic battle as Sauron changes form trying to escape Huan’s jaws. Finally, Lúthien forces Sauron to yield, saying: If you give me power over this tower, Huan will let you go. The only other way for Sauron to escape would be to leave his physical form, which would force him to return to Morgoth to face his scorn. Sauron couldn’t bear that. She is so smart! He agrees, Huan releases him, and Sauron turns into a vampire; bat, I assume. Lúthien makes a spell to destroy the gate and open the prison releasing the captives. She finds Beren lying along side Fingon. So for a moment she thinks she’s too late. Then this beautiful sentence “They looked again upon one another as the day rising over the dark hills shone upon them” The princess rescues her commoner lover. This is such a twist on the typical fairy tale or saga where the lady is only the prize at the end. It is also a nice closure to have Fingon buried in Minas Tirith. Beren and Lúthien get to spend time together as they make their way toward Doriath. Huan returns to his master.

The captives return to Nargothrond saying “a maiden had dared that which the sons of Feanor had not” Ha-ha. To be fair – they don’t have her magic powers. But that was enough to get Feanor’s sons kicked out of Nargothrond. Good riddance!

Beren decides that Lúthien deserves to live in comfort in Menegroth rather than camp out in the forest with him, so he decides he should go get the Silmaril. Lúthien insists on going with him. (Really, Beren, if you think carefully, she’s the person that you want beside you against the Dark Lord. He’s still thinking of her as a prize, not as the person who just saved his hide.) They are attacked by Feanor’s sons. Beren acquires Angrist, a really strong dagger that will be useful later. Huan forsakes his master. Lúthien heals the arrow wound Beren received in the fight. Then Beren sneaks off when she’s sleeping, still more concerned with her safety. Even after him being the one who gets wounded and needs a healer. Does he really think he will get far on his own. He does not understand what Lúthien’s abilities are. She does not need to be protected! Men! Of course Luthien and Huan follow, stopping briefly by Tol Dirion to get disguises; the hide of Drauglin and a bat-fell. They catch up to Beren. Huan explains to Beren so he finally understands that Lúthien will never “be safe”. She will die with you or without you. Huan needs to “dog-splain” because Beren refuses to really listen to Lúthien. If I were Lúthien, I’d begin to rethink my relationship. They use the disguises to get into Angband. Lúthien puts Carcharoth to sleep (See, Beren, you need her.) They go down to the throne room and Beren hides under Morgoth’s throne. Lúthien reveals herself and offers to sing. She puts everyone to sleep including Morgoth. He faceplants and the crown falls to the floor. Now, Beren leaps out and uses Angrist to pry a Silmaril from the crown. The spell breaks and they run for it. Beren has the Silmaril in his hand. Carcharoth is now awake. (It was a mistake not to kill it when it was asleep but then we wouldn’t have a story.) Luthien is out of power now. He bites Beren’s hand off, still holding the Silmaril. Carcharoth is driven mad with pain (because it is an evil thing touching the holy gem) and runs off. Now, the eagles intervene and carry Beren and Lúthien back to the border of Doriath. Huan had to run on his own to join them. After Beren healed, he felt he needed to report to Thingol. My quest is fulfill “a Silmaril is in my hand” Trying to be tricky with word play. But Thingol did actual say “Bring me a silmaril”, However his mood softened on seeing the stump of Beren’s hand and allowed them to be wed. In my mind, they were married ever since she gave him her hand in the forest. But the happy ever after doesn’t happen here. (The only thing I recall that Beren contributed to this escapade was to pry the silmaril from the crown. Luthien and Huan did the rest.)

Carcharoth needs to be killed. I guess it would have been too easy for Luthien and Melian to use their powers to put it to sleep. Huan slew Carcharoth but was mortally wounded with venom, as was foretold. Beren was also mortally wounded. Huan lay beside Beren to say farewell and Beren laid his hand on Huan’s head. The Silmaril was retrieved from Carcharoth and Beren held it up to Thingol: “Now is the quest achieved”. (You happy?) They carried Beren and Huan back on the same bier of branches. Now, this scene made me weep. And it does again as I write this. Lúthien embraces Beren and kisses him. She orders him to wait for her. He looks in her eyes before his spirit leaves. The quest is ended, but the story is still not over.

Beren’s spirit went to the Halls of Mandos, which is not typical for the spirit of Men. Lúthien has some real power. Then Lúthien’s spirit left her body and joined him. I wonder if Huan is there too. Because of her skill in songwriting and performance, the Valar sent both of their spirits back to Middle Earth to be together for the rest of their natural lives. She got a lot of talent from Melian. She even turned down an eternal life of happiness in Valinor, with no memory of Beren. That was probably a test for her to make sure she truly wanted to be with Beren, as silly as he was. In her choice, the Two Kindred were joined. Now we get the happy ending. The princess does the rescuing this time.

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Margarita Sarojini's avatar

That was a great summary! Huan needs to "dog-splain" - that was the best! I got such a good chuckle out of that.

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Flora Alisha's avatar

I see your take on Beren wanting to protect Luthien. I think he sees how special she is and his love for her is so great that he doesn’t want any bad to happen to her, despite knowing her strength. Beren is no shlub, his abilities are renown and he’s hunted by Morgoth. But compared to Luthien, he is a man and she’s half elf, half Maia.

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Sue K's avatar

Thank you for including the picture of the Tolkien’s’ tombstone with the noted Beren and Luthien names. That really made the chapter special. Their story is so different from some of the others like Thingol and Feanor who have weaknesses that end up destroying themselves and many others. It goes to show you don’t have to be antiheroes to make a great story!

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Flora Alisha's avatar

I agree, this is a great old fashioned hero/love story. Although the princess does a lot of the fighting, too!

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Stephanie Cain's avatar

One of the things that struck me is how Fëanor's oath again caused problems for people. Finrod was oath-bound to help Beren, and the sons of Fëanor were oath-bound to hinder Beren's mission. Curufin and Celegorm sound like they were jerks, but how much of that was prompted by the oath?

I do love Huan--I think it's interesting that it was given to him to speak three times in his life. Was that a gift from Yavanna or one of the other Valar?

One thing that drove me mad was how Beren kept trying to leave Luthien somewhere safe. I mean, I get wanting her to be safe, but dude, your woman's a badass! Bring her along!

One of the things I also like is how Aragorn and Arwen have this in their own history, and Aragorn similarly does the great deed of reclaiming the kingship to win the right to marry her. Though Arwen's role doesn't really compare to Luthien's, and now that's got me wondering why Tolkien made that choice. Not a criticism, but I'm curious.

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Margarita Sarojini's avatar

Oh, good question! Where did Huan's gift of speech come from? Maybe Ulmo? Who's ear is always listening to the pleas of Middle-earth. ❤️

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Flora Alisha's avatar

Celegorm and Curifin were the worst! Yeah, they had the oath of their father but did they have to be so creepy about it. Capturing Luthien and trying to force her to marry one of them, gross my dudes.

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Marilyn Mix's avatar

I agree with you about Beren wanting to "protect" Lúthien. She just rescued you, silly! Tore down stone wall with her voice!. You always need a healer in your party. He just couldn't get over the fact she was an elven princess.

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Brandon MacGillis's avatar

Well done Breanne, Beren and Lúthien for sure deserve a Sunday to themselves.

There is so much to take in and I've read this chapter three times and feel as if I should read it again. Lúthien is amazing and could be one of the most powerful people in the Tolkien Universe. She reminds me of, sorry to cross the space time continuum, Princess Leia/Carrie Fisher, a damsel who was never in distress.

Props to Tolkien for sharing her and other strong women in his book at a time when few did. Heck, many authors, directors, and others STILL don't do that.

Beren is also impressive as can be, especially because he's just a human (que Matrix's agent Smith "only human."). I love that, when Thingol (he's an a$$ for sure) gives him an impossible task, he takes it in stride and kinda smacks him back, saying "For little price do Elven-kings sell their daughters: for gems, and things made by craft. But if this be your will, Thingol, I will perform it. And when we meet again my hand shall hold a Silmaril from the Iron Crown; for you have not looked the last upon Beren son of Barahir."

Anyway, so much more to share and I look forward to reading everyone's thoughts!

Brandon

PS - The Silmarillion is really kicking into overdrive with these chapters, battle and battle, scary af new nightmares, beautiful love stories, amazing dogs, and so much more. THANK YOU for getting me through this amazing book!

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Margarita Sarojini's avatar

Yes!! I loved Beren's response to Thingol! One of my favorite lines from the Chapter.

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Flora Alisha's avatar

Beren’s reply to Thingol’s request for the Silmaril is epic! He’s like, “yeah, man. Dowries are a little lame but no big deal. You know who I am, right?”

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Margarita Sarojini's avatar

I'm so glad we're dedicating an entire week to the chapter Of Beren and Luthien. I love the beginning of their love story and how Tolkien gives this image of being stricken by love. How sometimes it's almost not a choice. You are captivated, spell bound, emotionally immovable from the love you seek. Tolkien writes, "But she vanished from his sight; and he became dumb, as one that is bound under a spell, and he strayed long in the woods, wild and wary as a beast, seeking her." I also loved the Lay of Leithian! The inclusion of poems, songs, and lore is scarce, almost nonexistent, in today's literature. If you're also listening to the audio book, Andy Serkis's reading of this is perfection! Also how can you not just fall in love with Huan! After this reading, every pet I will ever have in my life has a name already (Huan, Ulmo, Arien). The last part of this chapter that I loved was the strength and valor of Luthien. I know people have strong opinions about this but I personally think Tolkien was ahead of his time. I perceive he saw women as equals, or dare I say, superior. I was first struck at the progressiveness of him chosing the Sun as a feminine character and how the moon is masculine, pining for the presence of the feminine Sun, the first light of Middle-earth. Then here is Tolkien again highlighting the strength of the feminine. I mean, how many men sought Morgoth and Sauron? And look who brings them to their knees, Luthien! Beren acheives his goal because of Luthien. He couldn't have done it without her! And what a beautiful thought when you think about Tolkien and his own wife.

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Flora Alisha's avatar

My dog’s name is Gandalf, but I’ve been calling him Huan this past week because he’s giant (80lbs) and looks like a lot of the depictions of Huan.

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Lea Goode-Harris's avatar

I have read through to Turin Turumbar and find myself in great grief. I went back and reread Of Beren and Luthien and I’m so glad I did as I caught many nuances that I missed in the first read. I still have all my 80’s LOTR calendars. The portrait of Luthien has long been my favorite and I didn’t even know the whole story. And now I love it even more.

There is such a contrast of pure hearts, love, and courage with hatred, greed, and jealousy in these chapters. King Thingol holds on so tight that he is loosing all that he cares for. And the places he refuses to open his heart are in sharp contrast to his daughter. Finrod was so courageous, while Celegorm and Curufin… so conniving and cruel. I could see how after all the ages, Huan loved Luthien and followed her and Beren.

Has anyone else noticed the ongoing theme of loosing a hand? It feels very archetypal and symbolic and weaves through so many chapters and different characters.

I wonder about Luthien and Beren after these tales and what their lives were like in their remaining time on earth. I am curious if the full tale tells of some of that? Or gives us more details to their journey for the silmaril? I am going to seek those stories and find out!

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Flora Alisha's avatar

I was also curious about the stand alone version of Beren and Luthien. How much more does it include?

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Marilyn Mix's avatar

The "losing a hand" theme is in Star Wars too. Along with the self-rescuing princess. This may be a common folklore trope. Folklore majors, please chime in.

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